Wednesday, February 4, 2015

Fujifilm X-T1 Raw Files edited in Lightroom 5.7.1, Photo Ninja and Topaz Detail 3; What Is The Visual Difference?

This image is the starting point from which the other, below, images were derived.  Initially, a few minor adjustments
were made to the RAF file in Lightroom (before generating copies) such as changing the film simulation from Adobe Standard to Pro Neg S, tweaking white balance, straightening verticals and removing any default sharpening applied by Lightroom. All below images had the same starting point from which to work.  (click to enlarge)
Without too much narrative, I've taken a single RAW image from my Fujifilm X-T1 and edited it in Lightroom 5.7.1, Photo Ninja and Topaz Detail 3 to ascertain if I can extract more detail out of the image in alternate raw converters.  Here are the three images.  More comments below the images.  I just wanted you to see the differences.  Interesting.


Here is the version I edited to taste in Lightroom 5.7.1. (click to enlarge)
I was trying to extract maximum detail and set sharpening settings of Amount 50, Radius 1.0, Detail 100, Masking 20,
were set. No noise reduction used. Clarity was set on 25, the blue channel was reduced in luminance by 15, highlights were raised by 15
This image was exported to Photo Ninja, only Detail (+20) added, then returned to Lightroom.  In
Lightroom the only change made was to add Lightroom's default sharpening Amount of 25.
No other changes were made.  Notice the color and density differences after rendering in Photo Ninja.
These changes would cause me to have to tweak my color, brightness, saturation, etc. after returning to Lightroom.
I wanted you to see how Photo Ninja handles the basic raw conversion. (click to enlarge)
This was edited using Topaz Detail 3.  It was exported from Lightroom to Topaz, Small Detail Enhancement was
added (+50) and then re-imported back into Lightroom.  In Lightroom the only change was adding sharpening
Amount 40 and Detail 50 to taste. (click to enlarge)
I want to stress that if you are a casual photographer or casual viewer of photographs, none of this will matter as the detail issue, which is the issue of this post, is relatively minor in nature.  This will only matter to enthusiasts and professionals who fastidiously demand only the best results from their equipment.  Looking at Fujifilm X-T1 images edited in Lightroom as a whole image, or even moderately enlarged and printed, look great!  I like the camera's rendition of subjects as a whole.  The problems are only seen when looking at the images at 50-100%, i.e., pixel peeping, as it is sometimes referred.

At 1600 pixels across (the maximum size I can import into the blog) it is difficult to discern any major differences between the full images (except color, saturation, contrast and luminance).  I went back into Lightroom and after trying to loosely match color and density, and made some 100% crops so you can better discern the differences in detail extracted from the various treatments.

The main reason for this experimentation is not the color, dynamic range or or noise, but the potential ability to render fine detail, hence the aggressive sharpening settings.  So, that is what these 100% crops are meant to show.


This is the Lightroom treatment at 100%.  (click to enlarge)
The wood has a smoothness to it and there isn't much definition in the rusted roof panels, even with overly aggressive sharpening settings.  That didn't reflect reality.
However, this is typical of how Lightroom renders fine details with X-Trans files.
This is the Photo Ninja treatment at 100%. (click to enlarge)
Converting the image in Photo Ninja brings out much more detail reminiscent of how I saw the scene.
This is the Topaz Detail 3 treatment at 100%.  (click to enlarge)
The Topaz treatment doesn't seem to have the same quality of rendering as does the Photo Ninja treatment.

This is the Lightroom treatment (click to enlarge)
Actually, the foliage has more detail I would expect from Lightroom.  That is a good thing.

This is the Photo Ninja treatment. (click to enlarge)
Again, the Photo Ninja program brings out a lot of fine details in the wood, metal roof and bricks. There is
some minor noise generated, but as a part of Photo Ninja, Noise Ninja is embedded into it.  The noise is
so minor that Lightroom or most other programs can easily reduce it without losing any detail.  However,
the problem with Photo Ninja is that the colors are dramatically different in its raw conversion.


This is the Topaz Detail 3 treatment.  (click to enlarge)
I don't particularly care for this treatment on this image.
I think, with more experience, I could make Topaz Detail 3 work better on this image.  My inexperience.

To my eyes, the Lightroom image, looks fine "in general."  For this image, I think Lightroom does a decent job rendering detail in the foliage but the wood and metal panels seem smoother and less detailed than in reality.  Again, you probably wouldn't notice it unless you were closely examining the image.  The image certainly doesn't have the character you expect in an old, weathered, abandoned house.  I believe the difference in rendering some additional detail from earlier conversions in Lightroom comes from improvements in Lightroom along with setting the detail slider in the sharpening section of Lightroom to 100%.  Setting the Detail slider to 80-100% seems to work fairly well for X-Trans raw files in Lightroom.

If you are a detail freak, then I believe the Photo Ninja software is capable of bringing out more absolute detail.  I see a bit of a white line next to the branches (a sharpening artifact), indicating to me that there may be just a tad too much sharpening overall. Additionally, I see some slight purple fringing.  I didn't remove it in Photo Ninja nor did I didn't try to remove it in Lightroom after re-importing the file from Photo Ninja, but both could easily be removed.  I will also reiterate that I had to readjust the color and saturation after raw conversion in Photo Ninja because it came back into Lightroom significantly different that what was rendered in Lightroom's Library Module.

I'm not at all pleased with the Topaz Detail 3 rendition, but that may be more my fault than anything else.  I don't have much experience with the software and someone with more experience may be able to extract more detail without it looking somewhat crunchy and overly contrasty. Additionally, the sky in the Topaz treatment is starting to show some breakup of color. Again, I might have been able to do a better job with more experience.

From the tests on this particular image, I would say the newest version of Lightroom does a "nice enough" job for most people not to have to export/re-import/readjust, etc., that is unless you demand ultimate detail.  A lot of time would be saved.

In this test as well as several others I have conducted with a number of images in the past month with the Fujifilm X-T1, it is apparent to me that Photo Ninja does indeed extract more detail out of the files, especially extremely fine detail.  It also does a better job of sorting out the "watercolor" effect in green foliage, grass, etc.  Finally, it does a better job of rendering detail without adding content, specifically black "squirmy" black outlines around objects such as gravel or smaller tree branches.

I will continue to run tests with this camera, but I also want to just go out and use it and enjoy it.  After all, I do enjoy using it.  I can see this detail fine issue not being a big deal in most photographer's work, unless they over obsess, as I sometimes do about image quality.  I think we can get by this.


Thanks for looking.  Enjoy!

Dennis Mook


Many of my images can be found at www.dennismook.com.  Please pay it a visit.  I add new images regularly.  Thank you.



All content on this blog is © 2013-2015 Dennis A. Mook.  All Rights Reserved.  Feel free to point to this blog from your website with full attribution.  Permission may be granted for commercial use.  Please contact Mr. Mook to discuss permission to reproduce the blog posts and/or images.






10 comments:

  1. I've done quite a bit research on this subject myself - but it remains a very complicated issue. At least, LR 5.7.1 is decent compared to the first, horrible attempts Adobe made in 4.X. This article really opened my eyes: http://petebridgwood.com/wp/2014/10/x-trans-sharpening/. To my feeling, Sharpness 35, Radius 1.0, Detail 100, Masking 10 delivers a superior conversion versus Iridient or C1, sharper, more detail but, I admit, not in all cases. F.i. trees & branches can still get very 'unnatural'. I also find that the color fringing of some (a bit overhyped...) Fuji lenses - like f.i. the XF18mm - is also on a level it can best use a correction (lens correction, color, remove chromatic aberration). And what I also found out, it that LR automatically applies its own color profile, but you can select f.i. "Camera Provia Standard", which delivers you a better match with what I see from other convertors (related to Fuji, the colors in LR seem a bit flat). With this tweaking, I come to a result that is really fair enough to get decent gallery-quality prints ;-).

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    1. Thank you for the comment. I'm in total agreement with you. I've read Pete Bridgewood's blog and found he is right on the money. Thanks for the tip about Provia Standard. I have been using Pro Neg S. I'll give it a try.

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    2. And on top of my first post, also this is a little bit more challenging, nevertheless interesting: http://www.finn-b.com/fuji_x_raw_editing_how_to_get_the_jpeg_look/ I think that your findings + Pete Bridgewood + Finn-B's hold the magic potion for a nearly perfect X-trans conversion in LR. ;-) We're very close now - anyhow. Dirk B.

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    3. Dirk, thanks for the tip on Finn B Hansen's article. I plan on reading it tomorrow. I have extensively played around with X-T1 JPEGS and developed some settings to mimic my raw editing. It will be interesting to see what he has done.

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  2. What great pictures you have. And what a beautiful country.

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    1. Thank you for your kind words about my images. I appreciate it. Also, the U.S. is an incredible place to see and so different from east to west and from north to south. Again, thank you.

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  3. Have you tried RawTherapee? A bit of a learning curve, but if detail is what you want, it delivers in spades. I find using the Unsharp Mask sharpening method gives the most natural, artifact-free results.

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  4. I am also very happy with PhotoNinja!!! Its a pitty, you did not include Capture one - i see it unleashes XTRANS.

    What i dont understand: Fuji x-T1 RAWs gone thrue Adobe Camera RAW to dng developed in LR5.7 gives tremendously better results as pure LR5.7???!!!

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  5. I would try, in LR Sharpening: Sharpening 30 - 50. Detail @ 100
    I read somewhere that if you use the Detail slider at @100, LR will use a DL Convolution method to sharpen
    100 is ok for X files, but not for others - such as my d800 files.

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    1. Jim, thank you for your comments. You nailed it. After extensive experimentation, I have settled on Amount 30-50 and Detail 80-100. I found some images look better with Detail set less than 100%. Most need the deconvolution algorithms, but some look better with a lower detail setting. All that being said, some images just don't convert well at all in Lightroom at which point I convert the raw file in Photo Ninja, which brings out a lot of detail in those.

      I also agree with my Nikon D810 not using these settings. For me, import sharpening settings are normally Amount 25-45 and Detail at the default setting. I apply some export sharpening selectively, all depending upon the image.

      Again, thank you for taking time to comment. I appreciate it.

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